Special transfer discussion:

Singer Christa Warnke meets jazz pianist Thomas Rückert
"The real music of the 20th century was created in the cotton fields..."
...a transfer talk on International Jazz Day on 30 April

The real music of the 20th century was created in the cotton fields...

A transfer discussion on International Jazz Day with the artistic staff of the Music Education department Christa Warnke (vocals) and Thomas Rückert (piano).

In 2011, the 36th General Conference of UNESCO established the International Day of Jazz, which is celebrated annually on 30 April with various days of commemoration and action. The aim is to commemorate the artistic significance of jazz and its worldwide cultural impact. Reason enough for UniService Transfer to knock on the door of the experts at the University of Wuppertal. We spoke to Christa Warnke, artistic employee for voice training/vocals, and Thomas Rückert, artistic employee for piano, in the Bergische Universität's music hall.

As one of the first forms of popular music, jazz spread around the world in the 20th century. But where does it come from? How did it come about? Thomas Rückert: "In my opinion, jazz originated from a combination of blues and swing. These were the forerunners of jazz, so to speak. And blues and swing, in turn, come from the forced marriage of traditional African music and traditional classical music." He describes the blues as "what the workers and slaves sang in the cotton fields", but that doesn't make it jazz, because, he continues, "jazz has a lot to do with improvisation." And yet perhaps the root of this new trend lies in the blues. Christa Warnke is thinking above all of the "slave trafficking from Africa", which brought the deep suffering to the New World. "I also believe," she says, "that this was one of the reasons that such a strong force emerged. So first death and then a new force that has what it takes to have a global impact." The blues does not yet have the complex harmonies that characterise jazz, because, as Rückert explains, "the diatonic part, in other words the classical chords, the harmony in general, the major-minor tonality, has not yet been combined with the blues". Only in jazz does this fusion take place.

Swing is the forerunner of jazz

Warnke brings swing into play, which became world-famous with Duke Ellington and the founding of big bands, but which Rückert also sees as a precursor, as it still has a large proportion of dance music. The chronology of the development, as the conversation between the two musicians shows, cannot be clearly defined. "There are people," says Rückert, "who say it starts with Scott Joplin* and the jazz piano". For him, however, jazz begins "where it is really recognisable that this major-minor tonality, our western part, has mixed even more with the blues". He also feels that swing is more like "light music", which has not yet had the impact that jazz has.

The fact that jazz was able to establish itself at all is perhaps also due to the fact that many classical composers of the early 20th century did not know in which direction the music would develop. Thomas Rückert comments: "If you consider that people like Schönberg or Stravinsky sat at their desks and thought about how music could go on", the actual music of the 20th century was created almost "incidentally, in the cotton fields; out of the suffering of black people, in connection with our traditional, classical music." The pianist Rückert believes that this music was treated rather ignorantly by the classical elite because, he adds, "something completely new was created there, a new scale, a new mode, which the impressionists and the avant-garde were looking for, practically under their own noses," and this could not be accepted "because this current came from a lower human class or race, as it was regarded at the time".

Foundation and tradition are important

For Christa Warnke, who has worked as an artistic employee for voice training and singing at the University of Wuppertal since 2005, "the foundation and tradition that jazz has provided" is particularly important in jazz and distinguishes it from pure improvisation. Rückert adds: "Swing and the American songbook are part of jazz. For the audience, the songs of the 1940s also have a great tradition in musicals." And it is precisely these standards that form the basis for improvisation.

Rückert sees this foundation as the root from which a tree grows and branches out. And these branches can also consist of Indian, Persian and African music.

Jazz is simply the way into music

What is the best way to describe jazz? Thomas Rückert puts it in a similar way to saxophonist Lee Konitz, who says quite simply: "Don't play what you know. "**

"The most beautiful thing about jazz is being in the moment, this improvisation, without preparation or forming a thought beforehand. Creating music out of the moment, without being invasive. Without wanting to improve or correct anything. What's out is out. And that has a great freshness that I simply wouldn't want to miss." Christa Warnke adds: "You throw yourself into a lake and are simply somewhere else. You can really relax and it's always good for you." She also conveys this feeling of well-being to her students, who in the 21st century tend to be more musical or speech-song orientated.

Outsider music

Why is jazz no longer so popular? The experienced jazz pianist Rückert also has an answer to this question. "It has become outsider music. It was popular music for a long time and then rhythm and blues came along and overtook jazz. Even today, we are no longer used to hearing many notes." He knows from painful experience, having played in hotel bars for many years, that at some point people come up and ask: "Can you play something with a melody?" Listeners often don't recognise ten to twenty notes in a row as a melody because jazz is simply very dense. The emotions have also changed over time. "There was a lot of romance in the songs back then and today you primarily have a lot of sex in the lyrics of the pieces. There's no more playfulness and longing," he says, emphasising in the same breath, "but if you fall in love with jazz, you're totally lost. There's just a very, very deep truth, but it's not popular."

Where are the women?

Chick Corea and Keith Jarrett are already considered jazz legends and people are looking for their female counterparts. They do exist, at least according to Rückert, but you have to look for them. For although jazz offered women a platform for presentation in its early days, the opportunities tended to lie with the opposite sex.

Thomas Rückert regrets this and says: "I know a lot of really, really great female singers over 50 who don't find it easy to get gigs because there are also a lot of good young female singers. And the jazz audience still consists of a lot of men who always want to see a young thing that is sexy and performs something. But I love the emotional depth and the message so much more in the older ones." As examples, he cites Shirley Horn or the now 81-year-old Nancy Wilson, whose performance he raves about: "She has such a presence and radiates dignity."

Germany has a problem with jazz

Jazz doesn't have it easy in Germany. Rückert thinks this is due to a bruised ego and explains: "Basically, the Germans have the problem that we have so many great people from a cultural point of view. There were all these great composers. Bach, Beethoven, Brahms, they were all German. Then there were the writers: Goethe, Schiller etc., they have such a long tradition. And then all of a sudden music comes from America, which is new music. I have the feeling we've been hit really hard on the ego." And in order to appropriate this new art form, we try to "make it artistic". Rückert sees this as the real danger, because "then it happens out of the head, it becomes artificial. Jazz becomes artificial, funny things are done and we lose our connection to the audience. And this is (unfortunately) supported by the cultural authorities, i.e. the radio, the press and sometimes even the universities."

As a result, Rückert explains, jazz musicians have problems being heard at all. This wedge, he explains, which has become entrenched in jazz between intellect and emotion, comes from the constant demand to "always want to do something special."

As a singer, Christa Warnke misses the German language in this context. "So with Schubert and Schumann, they are famous for combining words with music and I always have to express myself in English. I've thought about putting lyrics to compositions that I like, but," she admits, "I don't know if it has that power.

A beauty in the terrible

What does jazz trigger in a musician?

Pianist Rückert answers: "Jazz is like food for me. I need it like air to breathe. It nourishes my soul. It expresses my feelings. When I hear the blues, it goes through me. Seeing beauty in the terrible is so wonderful that I would never want to miss it. And for me, jazz means being in the moment, being present. For me, living in the moment is a deeply spiritual thing. Not to live in a preconceived way, not to talk in a preconceived way, not to come into contact with people in a preconceived way. I don't go to anyone to impress them, to manipulate them, but I leave everything as it is in the moment." And Christa Warnke adds in conclusion: "It's democratic music. It connects. You can argue with someone about political views, but when you make music together, you meet on a completely different, tender level. It's non-verbal and not driven by the mind. It's spiritual, that's what it is. ...it's touching."

Uwe Blass

(Transfer conversation from 10/04/2018)

*Scott Joplin (1867 - 1917) US-American composer and pianist

**Don't play what you already know

____________________________________________________________________________________

Christa Warnke has been an artistic employee for the vocal department specialising in jazz pop rock at the University of Wuppertal since 2005.

Thomas Rückert has worked as a full-time artistic employee for piano at the University of Wuppertal since 2011.